hey..heard u are quitting....I am ur team member....prachetjain.....since i am a noob, cld. u help me out by giving me a few of your good bruiser cards for ISO-8......i never spend anything and it wld be really nice of u!!!!
Hey Dbh noticed you are very active on the wikia wanted throw something out there.....
I can understand why the wikia contributors would not want to touch one, but I think a simple guide on how to value cards on rarity, alignment, ability, etc...etc... would be huge. I have no idea how it would be done but now that sleepy called it quits (impossible task IMHO) there is a huge void (not that it was really all that current over the last few months anyway, again impossible task trying to value every ssr+ card and up). Who cares about a pp value, how about a simple guide edited by this active community that would let people know that a defensive speed degrade is probably less desirable than a villain boost. It would be a pain in the butt, it would however pull a ton of traffic on to the wikia. Just a thought i use the wikia a ton just rarely feel the need to comment. Thanks Dr. Dbh ;-)
There was a comment by someone a couple of months ago that we could organise something.
It could be possible to do something, but the main issue is actually keeping a legimate price guide, and how to work in rarity of the card. 2 Cards could be identical but a card only released in small quantity is worth more
No prices... just a guide on what has value and what doesnt. A guide on what cards are good and what cards arent. Example... Arsenal Punisher is a valuable card for a ssr+ player(prob changed by know, bare with me), Ex Pun is probably less valuable not for PP but just the fact that he doesnt do as much, he has a great attack but who realistically looks for a speed defense to attack. Not sure if it would be a good idea for a wikia to list prices, just my opinion.
We couldn't list prices. They change too much and everyone has access so they could just keep changing them, possibly to use it to suit their needs in a trade.
As for giving players a guide, there are a lot of factors there as well. What is the person looking for? I've been trying to work on a way for users to search the cards based on combinations of factors (alignment, rarity, gender, etc) so they could compare stats etc on their own.
Other than that, I think what happens now with people asking for help is the best way we can help them.
The only thing I could think of is using some type of ranking system. Given the different criteria (proc rate, proc boost/degrade %, amount of cards in population) and put number values to each. Then just add up the total. I would say leave max stats out of it and could just order the cards by stats, because as new, better cards come out you don't want to have to update each one to reflect the new card(s). Again, just an idea.
And Slak, the difference with fantasy football is that a lot of those stats/predictions are automated. We have a card catalog of 900+ cards and counting. I know we don't have to do them all. But say you can take out half of those because you only need to do one card, not the base and fused values. So that drops it to 450 say. And then there are a bunch of cards that aren't used or wouldn't need to be included because their rarity is too low. I would still think that's in excess of 200 cards to go through and value and keep up with.
Personally I think giving a card ranking list and maintaining it is far more work than it will provide gains. Why do you think Jeenx and Sleepy stopped. Or why Mudgobbla stopped updating the battle simulator. It's a lot of work to keep up with. The lists of cards that we have broken out would hopefully help to provide users the type of feedback they need on cards. And if we can get the search/filtering working that would be even better. Hopefully coming here a newbie player would be able to learn the difference between the team boost and heroes boost.
prices change so much too as new cards are introduced, i bought a ssr professor x like weeks ago for 10 pp now the price has gone down to 5pp even if there is a guide its not like the person that you are trying to buy from values the cards as the same as what they should be, maybe its his favorite card or maybe it was his first good card so he would jack up the price, you never know in the trading world
the factors are as it stands would be rarity which should not fluctuate if they dont add in an extra one anytime soon, ability - now there are 2 and more separate factors to ability the main factor is what type of boost it is self, team, hero, villian etc then what type which still account to the other factors as well atk OR def then ATK/DEF oh one other factor is enhance or degrade. thats a lot of data to go through and seems easy just thinking about it but they could add in new abilitys or certain aspects or (like they just did) more combos which change what people want and not what a card should just be worth by all those other factors.
Slak96u wrote: Why cant that happen here in some small way, a "coalition" of people this community respects gives an idea on the worth/value of cards...
Like...the Illuminati? :)
The same problem with all guides is that value is subjective. Plain and simple. Some people don't value degrades as highly as boosts (despite generally being stronger) and others swear by them. I'd value a card with virtually identical stats as a stronger one higher because that means to me personally that I could get it for cheaper and not really suffer for it. I also really value good combo decks, and other people think they're unimportant.
I don't much like card values right now, but I know that it's tricky terrain trying to make guides essentially dictating them.
This was actually one of the furture projects I wanted to instill in the wiki. I could see format being pretty much the same as what Jeenx/Sleepy had, but instead of 1 player price checking in LINE traderooms, etc, & updated the prices on the guide, it could be done instead by the community as a whole (no single player reliance).
There are a few potential issues with this of course (i.e. potential for vandilism to goad someone into a bad trade, etc), but the hope is that with an entire community as a "watchdog" any issues will be identified and addressed quickly.
I really meant to make a forum thread for "Future Wiki Projects" outlining my ideas, and giving users a place to present their ideas too, but I've been fairly busy lately.
Been a little absent lately, i apologize. Not sure if a straight-up price guide is a good idea, maybe a grading system? ide stay away from a true value, to this point its driven off two dedicated players.
PP value is impossible, whats a pp worth? mobage value? or .6?..... impossible to keep up with....
You have a dedicated community, im guessing most mods are in different alliances, isnt there a way to protect a page from vandalism/posting from non mods?
Well yes we can protect a page to be edited by admins only, but that's counter to what we are hoping to acheive. We want more of the community involved in projects on the wiki rather than everything being run through an admin, more of a de-centralized structure.
What does it matter what a pp is worth in $$$? Selling/pricing at a $ value is against Mobages TOS, and also not allowed here in this wiki. Therefor, pp as its used currently, gives a relative value of one card vs another. Now yes, the pp value changes at an almost constant basis, which is what makes it difficult for a few people to maintain a price guide, whereas if an entire community maintains, then hopefully it'll be kept up-to-date better.
However, I will concede that a relative grading system sounds interesting; would like to see your (or anyone's for that matter) invisionment on how this would work. Because I'm not sure what you would grade on. Currently 2 cards with similar stats, & abilities are valued drastically different from one-another based on factors such as alignment, availability in "marketplace", useablity in combos, desire for a particualr character, art, etc. There are many factors that go into the pricing of a card, and makes it difficult to formulize value. Whereas I was thinking of just "reporting" what the current market value for the card is (similar to how newspapers, etc. report the NYSE et al value of a particualr stock)
Ok now after re-reading the above comments, you're asking less about a value structure for cards but more of their rating in the meta-game. Again, it prolly can be done, but the factors used and the weights of those factors need to be determined a little better. As Blynk said earlier, he has a meta-rating he's done based soley on ATK, and Zaibasis created one based on how a 5 card wall would fair against a 5 card AP Cap wall (for ATK) or against a 5 card Hellfire wall (for DEF). So once we define all the factors we'll need and how to compare them, we can build this ranking system (kinda like what Jayuse said earlier, but I feel that max stats are also an important factor, maybe not weighed as heavy as ability and proc rate, but still a contributing factor). However, with the rate the cards are being released of late, this would be very time-consuming and need constant attention (look at how terribly we keep up with the featured card of the week (on home page), it hasn't been updated in a month). This is where I'll again make my obligatory plea for more community involvement. This wiki was, is and always will be intended for the masse to contribute and maintain, not just the select few (admins).
To be honest, if we did start a price guide, we could remove the rare factor from it and base it purely on stats. I've said it before, and I will say it again, the rare factor determine the price of a card is stupid.
I'd rather steer away from "price-setting" and rather just have a place to see current market value that isn't dependent upon1 person (ie Jeenx, Sleepy, Allday, etc)
On the other hand, having a list based on practicality is kinda nice, but not sure how you can factor out market price, eg the new witch is the better choice for Mutant Masterminds, but her availability and market price make Nexus Being more "practical"
Ill give Sleepy credit that he attempted to use practical value in his guide for some time. He dropped it though, Im guessing it like the entire undertaking became overwhelming. Im sure the Admins/Mods have enough going on and taking on a guide in any way that would be proposed would be incredibly time consuming, and probably divisive.
This idea or the direction of it i like Whereas I was thinking of just "reporting" what the current market value for the card is (similar to how newspapers, etc. report the NYSE et al value of a particualr stock).... not at all sure how it could be implemented, but it has promise. Maybe a weekly community newsletter ;-), humor aside as the community grows more people will get involved adding to the contributors to the wikia.
Coins neo page is hilarious personal favorite comment-
IT'S LIKE ARGUING WITH A TODDLER.......But you are allowed to beat a toddler senseless without them telling anyone lol
jj, i think more so than card rarity, card availability should play a factor. like dbh said, new witch is better for mutant masterminds because she has better stats/ability, but her availability makes her not as practical...
on the idea of a "value" for cards not based on price I think there could be a basic formula something like:
proc rate -low = -2, rel low = -1, average = +0, rel high = +1, high = +2
Then there's the differences in opinion on what people see as practical lol. I mean, there's already a division in which a lot of people see defense as nearly worthless, which should mean to them that defense cards have zero practicality, which should mean that no defense card should probably be valued at what they are currently, even Caps, and especially the new Thing (it probably shouldn't be valued at that anyway really lol)
...interesting. We should just have everybody come up with their own system and then compare them all to see what we all come up with! Ready, GO! XD
I made a quick document on my laptop one time trying to think of a mathematical system for pricing so that it couldn't fall prey to too much subjectivity, but that's obviously impossible. Even the formula would be subjective so I quit even though I thought with tweaking it could work. I also forgot to adjust it for combos, and it doesn't take into account card availability at all.
It looked something like:
Highest stat respective to ability (so if it's an attack boosting card, the max attack, and if it boosts both, the max of both divided by two) multiplied by the card rarity (Sr = .1%, SSR = .25%, UR = .6%), then divide by ability's "power" (1 for FULL power as in if it attacks or degrades only 1 type, and 1.5 if it's like a dual boost, or group boost/degrade) for base cards.
For fused cards, multiply by 2, then multiply by the skill lvl (1-2 = 1, 3-4 = 1.1, 5-6 = 1.3, 7-8 = 1.6, 9-10 = 2) then using my SSA Captain at the time to plug for values I came up with
8654 x .006 = 52 PP base...52/1.5 = 35 PP for a UR SSA Captain America, or 70 PP for my legend since it was a sk.2 so it wouldn't have adjusted.
I don't remember what that figure looked like when compared to listed prices on Jeenx or Sleepy at the time...this was months ago lol. And I only ever tested the one card anyway, so it'd take a lot of testing to see where it fails hard, and where it might not (outside of the things it doesn't factor in at all)
Why should rarity be a factor (and note, im not talking about SSR, UR, L). Why should Extremis Iron Man be worth 1200pp, where if it was a normal card, its stats would be 5pp? I would understand in a real world card game that it might be case, but in a digital trading game it shouldn't be.
In the RW, a game could stop being made, but people can still play it, trade cards etc and the value of rare cards could go up.
It the digital game, a game could stop being made, and then what? No game, no cards, no way to play. What value does a $600 card have then?
Factoring in combos would be the hardest I think.
@Spiffy, my page does that in a way. It ranks everything together and spits out the position. It just doesn't look at Defense or Combos.
I understand what your saying Blynk, but relative scarcity always has and always will be an economic factor in any market. But maybe we are mixing two ideas here: economic market value vs. utlility value. Yes utility has a large impact on the economic value of any good, but scarcity does have a sizable impact as well. Similar to how a car model could have a limited run of a special paint job on only a few of them. It may be the exact same car as the base model in standard colors (and may have few more very minor ammenities), so same utilization, but it'll command a higher economic value due to its scarcity.
And digital vs real-world doesn't seem to have much effect either. Both have their shelf-lifes (digital is obviously shorter). But take a look at Pogs; I could have the rarest Pog ever made, but it isn't worth much more than a coaster for my daughter's little teaset.
& yes factoring in combos will be the more difficult to formulize.
Blynk nz wrote: Yeah and you a probably right. Its just hard for me to see because I find it stupid.
Same here. I understand it on a level, but it really is dumb in this instance.
In the examples of cars, certain models flat out stop getting made, leaving a finite number in circulation, even a lot of TCGs do that (though they obviously can't restrict movement of the cards that were printed up to that point). This game doesn't really tend to do so. There's an initial limit on the number of a given card put out there (event rewards) but then they almost always eventually release more later anyway, and then they don't stop that I can think of. I can't think of a card that they've effectively removed from the game's card pool for the exception of the previous referral cards...which before they screwed people on being able to trade them entirely, were seen as largely "worthless" anyway.
Then, you have to think about when scarcity actually becomes a factor at all. If the most rare card in the game was actually an SR, would anybody actually value it at anything over 1PP when it has no real use at all? It's like it's a random unseen modifier that requires a card to start at a value over 1 before you'll see its affect. lol
To be honest, I don't know at the moment. We are looking into a possible fix for the list of all cards to actually include all the cards.
I think I recall something about creating a query with an export feature in it, but I'll have to Google that again ( & I'm a little busy at work), but I'll get back to you (or if you find the answer you can get back to me).
Aside from the issue where the list of all cards doesn't actually show all of the cards, there is a way to export the list of cards to CSV. The downside is that you can only export 500 records at a time, and our card catalog is already well over 500. So the lists would have to be broken down, or there would have to be multiple CSV files to encompass the whole catalog.
Thanks guys - I was running into the same thing (the limit) - Do you know is there's a way around this limit? - Maybe the db needs to be ported to another platform, and we link to it. (I'm obv too lazy for that, and that's why I was asking you guys!) XD
From looking through that link, though rather quickly, it seems like it could be better for querying the data. The downside is that it says it increases the database size. And with all of our pictures and stuff we probably have a large database as it is. I'd say its something to consider but would like to see what the other option for reloading the semantic data does.
Maybe you could provide some insight, im still working things with mobage support staff going to type up the reports this weekend, if time allows. The guys who hacked me changed my rally message saying "hey bro check your presents list welcome woh hack service." Do you think it would be possible for lets say mobage to pull up my last gifted or traded items, lets say 10-20 items back. If so then there is a chance since they took 5 shield barriers a minimum of 50 cards per account and over 1 mil silver.
There's a tab for Present History, that shows the last x number of items you've claimed from your present list.
& yes, Mobage should have logs on all things traded/gifted, which is why they asked you when the last time you logged into your account and everthing was fine, and when you noticed the problem. This gives Mobage a timeframe in which to check their logs and see what happened on your account.
lol thats what im saying i finally can get back onto the main but not the feeder, i have a few accounts on there robertevidente1-2-3-4 and my temp nevidente just cant remember the email accounds associated with 2 and 3 lol but i mean i sent them the message saying what my rally is nnow so i mean what else could they want? im still going to do the report though
Hey just wondered if there are any trade rooms you are in on Line that would have an opening I could join on. We are TM and I have a couple booms I am going to trade for packs or cards and the trade room I am in seems to be falling apart.